Another Conversation With Dan Pryce

Last December I adapted a lengthy exchange left on a Facebook comment into a blog post (read it here). It was between myself and Dan Pryce. People who pay too much attention to this blog may remember Dan being referenced before and since that conversation-cum-blog post but it remains his sole contribution.

I thought it would be nice to change that. Because Dan’s a naturally funny and smart guy and it comes across surprisingly well in text (perhaps it helps if you know him, I’m not sure). Facebook conversations about wrestling between he and I are pretty frequent but it’s rare for them to rival the length and all-encompassing nonsense of the previous conversation post.

But there was one from the beginning of August that was mostly focused on the SummerSlam main event and what will follow it. As I still agree with everything I wrote here I thought it would be sensible to post this instead of retyping it all in a more traditional style. For the record Dan actually started the conversation with “In other news.” I want to clarify that so it’s clear nothing’s been cut out.

So now, for the second time ever, Dan Pryce contributes to That Wrestling Blog…

***

Dan: In other news, would they do Sting-Lesnar? Would they?

Lesnar beating Cena, then Sting dropping from the rafters would be a mark out moment. The resulting match would be drivel.

Dave: They might do the match. The rafters should be out of the question after Owen. I'd rather they went territories: turn out the lights for long enough for Steve to walk to the ring then put them back on. Massive pop and Heyman can sell a heart attack. Everyone wins.

But let me put this to you: would you rather Sting or The Rock make a post-main event SummerSlam cameo?

Dan: Rocky. Just a big stare-down. Though I'm pretty sure they're keeping Lesnar for Reigns. Or the returning Bryan. Though Bryan may never return. I don't think Reigns will be ready, even by WrestleMania. So The Rock. That was a roundabout way of getting to the same conclusion.

Dave: I think they're definitely saving Lesnar for Reigns. Doesn't mean they can't give him Sting or Rocky to go over at NOC or the Rumble. Something about the stretch of shows from October to December makes me feel they're beneath Rock and even Sting, who I've never understood the appeal of.

I've no interest in Sting v Lesnar if it happens. In fact I think I’d actively be against it. There's no reason for it to happen. They're not the sort of names who get tossed into the same "dream match" scenarios. And it would be awful.

On a related note I could see Lesnar sitting out Survivors to save his dates and a ten man tag headlining instead.

Dan: I'd like that. He'll defend against Cena at NOC, in a rematch. Because: who else? Batista return? Possible? Imminent?

Dave: Actually I think Batista's a likely candidate for a post-SummerSlam main event cameo. Or a return on the following night's RAW.

Dan: I'd like an Authority versus everybody else tag match. They haven't done one yet. Survivor Series would be the best place to hold it. You could have a team led by Aitch and a team led by Reigns. Some kind of ridiculous stipulation involving title rights or company control or some such. I always used to enjoy that. Putting your company up casually in a match.

Dave: Vince was crazy about defending the company in matches. Why did the board stand for it?!

Survivor match pitting Team Reigns v The Authority would be excellent. They could do some interesting things with teammates turning on teammates to set things up for future feuds. Triple H, Orton, Batista, Kane and Rollins versus Reigns, Ambrose, and three others. The three others bit is where things fall down. They don't have a deep enough roster.

It'd probably be the Usos, which makes me want to weep.

Dan: Why they never do this anymore befuddles me. They could use Survivor Series to set up big Royal Rumble feuds to set up big 'Mania feuds. But there's no progression. Remember progression?

Dave: I do. Vince doesn't.

Dan: Stardust. Titus O'Gator. And Alicia Fox. That’s a team!

Dave: In fact, Wyatt could be face by then. There's potential in the Wyatt Family, Ambrose and Reigns teaming. Then the December show could have a six man of the Wyatts v Evolution.

Then they could slowly build to Wyatt v Trips at 'Mania.

This is pointless chatter though. Survivor Series will be headlined by Cena v Batista in a Lack of Interest on a Pole match.

Dan: Where is D-Bry? I miss him so.

I still don't miss Punk. I feel nothing about Punk's absence. I realise only that he kind of existed for about 8 months and I watched none of his matches after The Undertaker one.

Dave: Stopping robbers with a broken neck. If this were ECW that would become his chief gimmick. Heyman would be dressing jobbers as fans and having them leap the rail to get their necks snapped during D-Bry matches.

I don't miss Punk either. There was nothing for him to do and I wanted him to take time off. I am looking forward to his hypocritical return in time for a WrestleMania in a few years’ time though.

Dan: I can't think of any matches he could have, even now, that would interest me. His great foil was Cena. He needed Cena, and Cena needed him. They had fantastic matches.

Dave: The only fresh matches are singles ones opposite The Shield guys but none of them interest me, even though I like Regins, Rollins and 'Brose. Even Punk v Wyatt wouldn't do anything for me and I love me some Wyatt.

Punk v Bo would have held my interest before Bo's streak ended.

Dan: I'm excited for Lesnar to get the title, somehow. They should have given it to him earlier. Also, he should have a) beaten Cena in his first match b) never had one match, let alone three, with Hunter c) broken the Streak but tried to make a good match out of it.

Dave: R-Truth ending Bo’s streak is a perfect example of WWE ineptitude.

(At this point I posted a lengthy scenario detailing how Bo’s streak ending could have been a bigger deal. I’ve edited it out of this because it became this blog post. There didn’t seem much point in having it on the blog twice.)

Dave: Lesnar should've been undefeated since 2012. The Streak ending would've had more impact and been easier to accept were that the case.

Dan: That Bo idea would have been excellent. He's such a perfect character for that. I'd like him to start doing self-help videos.

Come to think of it, who will Lesnar face?

Cena. Done.

Triple H. No.

Bryan? Out.

Reigns? Mania is seven months away.

Dave: Orton v Lesnar is fresh, strange considering how long they've both been around. I'm desperate to see a mid-air reversal from an F5 into an RKO.

Bryan will probably be Lesnar’s Rumble challenger.

The other question is who will Reigns face? He needs to be prepared for a 'Mania main event against a former UFC champion and the man who ended The Streak in which the title's on the line. That's a tall order in seven months, and that's with him being pretty good now.

Lesnar v Cesaro is likely. It would have made a lot more sense to keep Heyman with Cesaro, obviously, which is probably why they got split. Nobody in WWE seems compatible with sense.

What we learned from this is that Lesnar's world title reign is going to be awful until its final couple of months. By which point people will have stopped caring.

Good luck, Roman.

That Wrestling Podcast Episode 30

That Wrestling Podcast Episode 30 by Dave Hatton on Mixcloud

I’m quite a fan of Batista. He’s not my favourite wrestler or anything like that but I appreciate the things he does well and feel the things he’s bad at are minor enough to be easily overlooked. Michael is not a fan of Batista. He can’t overlook any of the things he’s bad at and doesn’t feel the things he’s good at warrant any special praise. We did the natural thing in this situation and recorded a podcast episode arguing for and against ‘The Animal’.

This picture represents an underrated time to be a wrestling fan

And then a week later WWE announced that Batista’s returning.

Needless to say if we’d known he was coming back we would have devoted a lot more time to the topic of Batista. We probably would have altered the approach we took too, discussing who he could feud with and what he’s likely to do when he turns back up on RAW. Unfortunately we’re (again) victims of poor timing.

I remain a Batista fan. I imagine I’ll write something about his upcoming return at some point. For now you’ll have to make do with me arguing in favour of his matches with The Undertaker and Eddie Guerrero.

A Conversation With Dan Pryce

If you’ve listened to That Wrestling Podcast you’ll probably have heard mention of Dan. We had intended for him to be a regular contributor but it’s not really worked out. Partly because he doesn’t live near enough to London to make recording easy for him and partly because he’s just become a dad. Congrats again, brother!

But not being able to record with him doesn’t mean I don’t speak to him. Facebook comments are regularly exchanged, almost exclusively about wrestling. Sometimes they’re brief flurries and sometimes they span dozens of posts and hundreds of words. And just recently I had the idea of converting one of these exchanges into a blog post, giving everyone the flavour of Dan Pryce (oh!) I want them to experience despite not being able to record with him.

Below you’ll find a conversation from Facebook. The fact that it’s from Facebook should be remembered: it’s all very informal and not originally designed for being a blog post. A light bit of editing has been performed but for the most part it’s the conversation exactly as it first appeared. To clarify the opening comment was a post on my wall. The rest are comments on that.

Consider this an unofficial podcast entry.

***

Dan: Just watched Survivor Series. Worst main event in living memory.

Dave: It's not good is it? Even with Orton stalling and ringside brawling Show could only handle eleven minutes. He was blown up walking to the ring.

Dave: The best bit was the crowd singing his music.

Dan: It genuinely made me a little bit depressed.

Dave: What do you think was the best match?

Dan: I enjoyed the first match. It was kind of slow and flowed badly, but there were good spots and Reigns was excellent. That was a push, if ever I saw one. I couldn't sit through Ryback v Mark Henry. I'd rather sit through Mohnil¹ imbibing a whole turkey. The Punk and Bryan match was pretty okay. I expected something a little more. Cena v Del Rio was just their last match, without the benefit of the surprise factor. Cena very much got beaten and Del Rio very much did that angry Mexican face.

Dan: I'm still not entirely sold on the Wyatts. Great gimmick, sloppy wrestling.

Dan: Harper and Rowan are big men who do lots of hitting.

Dan: #hitting

Dave: I thought the opener was the best thing and it all went downhill after, with various peaks and troughs. Reigns was wonderful. Things were laid out for him to look great and he made sure he did. Totally agree about Cena v Del Rio.

Dave: I'm not sold on Erick 'Upside Down Sheamus Face' Rowan. I like me some Luke Harper though. That guy is magic. Bray's the best wrestler of the three but he always seems to be injured. He's had three or four sidelining injuries in the last year. He's the new Batista...

Dan: He DOES have an upside-down Sheamus face!

Dan: I'm deeply, deeply, utterly ambivalent about Orton v Cena. At least this means they won't do it at WM.

Dave: Do you think the titles are actually going to be unified? A lot of people seem to think they’ll be swapped.

Dan: I think they'll switch them somehow. Or more shenanigans. I smell Big Show's big fist.

Dan: Ohhh.

Dave: I think there's a chance of Cena v Bryan II at WrestleMania. And apparently Sheamus is pushing for an Undertaker match.

Dan: I'd rather see Undertaker wrestle a bun.

Dave: My immediate reaction was that Cena will win. Because he's Cena.

Dan: Cena wins, starts a feud with The Authority, something happens, Big Show cries.

Dan: Why didn't they wait for Rumble to do Orton v Cena?

Dan: That would have been huge. Keep it going for Elimination Chamber, send them both into big feuds for WM. THAT'S booking. *pow*

Dave: I thought that about the Rumble. I had my hopes pinned on Cena defending against Cesaro at TLC. And I expected an Orton v Show rematch.

Dave: Regarding you preferring Undertaker v a bun to Undertaker v Sheamus, I'd prefer Undertaker v the concept of buns to Undertaker v Sheamus.

Dave: I do not like Sheamus.

Dave: Undertaker v a Stetson > Undertaker v Sheamus

Dan: It's not that I don't like him. It's just that anything bad that happens in the world is directly attributable to the existence of Sheamus.

Dave: Apparently he's shaved off his beard and-or hair while injured. Which makes him even more generic than he was before.

Dave: Forget the brogue kick. You're not beating Undertaker with that.

Dan: I genuinely do not know what they have planned for WM. Very little, I suspect. OR: they may have something remarkable lined up.

Dan: Sheamus minus the beard looks like Kreplach:

 

Dan: Kreplach with a face.

Dave: Is that a recent photo of him? He's lost weight...

Dan: Very recent.

Dan: I'm particularly enjoying the 'Daniel Bryan' chants whenever Orton appears. Sometimes, you can just count on wrestling fans to be wonderful dicks.

Dave: They don't have anything remarkable lined up. Lesnar v Undertaker and Cena v Hogan are what I'm expecting.

Dave: Yeah, that's right. Cena v Hogan.

Dan: That would be...

Dan: It would be kreplach again.

Dave: How are you going to feel when Bryan appears wearing a vest and jeans and cuts a promo about Bray Wyatt being the messiah?

Dan: Cena's vehemently denied that he thinks Hogan will wrestle. So you're probably right. We're probably in for it.

Dave: Rock told interviewers he was retired a few months before he hosted WrestleMania and set up his Cena match. I hadn't heard that about Cena so I'm now even more sure Hogan will wrestle. And if he does Cena is the obvious match.

Dan: I'd like a Bryan heel turn. I'd like him to live in the basement, eat only things he finds in the trash, recite Edgar Allen Poe poems and wrestle in a full body tweed-in-one.

Dan: Is Rock at WM 30? I think it needs his bulging, 'about-to-explode' head.

Dan: Also, Orton is not a heel. He's just a guy who has stumbled upon a belt.

Dave: Triple H and Stephanie are bigger heels than Orton. Rock probably won't wrestle but I think he'll do something at WrestleMania.

Dave: That he's probably not wrestling is part of why I think Hogan will.

Dave: They should splash the cash and do Hogan v Cena and Punk v Austin.

Dan: I hope he stages some sort of eating contest. Involving Mark Henry, Brie Bella and Ron Simmons. The Rock, that is.

Dave: Ends with Brie giving everyone her finisher (which she'll have by then).

Dave: Hogan v Cena, Austin v Punk and Lesnar v Undertaker would be a good triple main event line-up. Won't happen though. Austin's done.

Dan: Austin ain't coming back. It's hard to see how they can rise to the thirty years challenge. Lesnar v Taker is a good start. Punk v Bryan would be great. But there always needs to be one, mind-blowing, “this match will never happen-oh, wait, it's happening” match-for-the-ages match at these events. Maybe Michaels will come back? Not that I'd want him to. Hogan v Cena fits the bill. It also fits the “I do not want this match” bill.

Dave: How about the other potential Hogan match: Hogan v Undertaker?

Dan: URGH.

Dave: Just read a rumour that Cena will win the WWE championship and Orton will win the World Heavyweight championship. This is something I thought about and then dismissed as too daft even for them. It surprises me to find it on a credible (as far as such sites can be credible) news site.

Dave: They didn't even want to do a unification match until mid-week. That's why they didn't say the word on RAW. That's why the company's as uninspiring as it is.

Dan: They need to pull their fingers out of their asses.

Dave: They need to buy the rights to Red Dwarf and introduce a stable based on the cast.

Dave: Goldberg v Ryback? That'd be LOLage.

Dan: I'd LOL. If LOL means self-harm.

Dave: It's what The Ryback wants. If that means some fans self-harm then so be it.

Dan: Ryback is as relevant as disco.

Dave: So you want Ryback versus Disco Inferno?

Dave: Or Ryback versus Disco Inferno... AND ALEX WRIGHT?

Dave: I want WrestleMania XXX to feature a guest appearance from Stephen Fry in a full length QI segment. Guests to be The Rock, Ryback, Kevin Nash and Booker T.

Dan: Four way dance: Ryback, Horace Hogan, Judy Bagwell vs. Taz (2013 version). Inferno match. On a pole.

Dave: Bret Hart on a pole inferno match?

Dan: First one to Bret Hart gets to tag-team with Alex Riley.

Dave: Bret Hart would no-sell being on a pole like an absolute trooper.

Dan: He'd give the match 4/10 though.

Dave: Loser must star as Jack in a full remake of Lost.

Dan: I'd very much like to see Judy Bagwell replace the lead actor in famous TV shows.

Dave: Commentary team for this consists of Brad Maddox, Gillberg and David Mitchell.

Dan: "IT'S THE ISLAND, KATE!"

 

Dave: I've often thought that about Judy Bagwell. I'd particularly like to see her in recent non-hit Under The Dome. As the male bearded lead, natch.

Dave: Oh, Judy Bagwell. I miss you so much. Thank you for giving us Buff. He is indeed the stuff.

Dan: I think they need more wrestler mother storylines. I miss Shelton Benjamin's momma daily.

Dave: They should have done more with Brodus Clay's "momma" (who looked considerably younger than him) when she made that cameo at WrestleMania.

Dave: You know who'd be perfect for the mother gimmick? Ryback.

Dave: He could start bellowing "Feed me more!" again. And she could do it!

Dan: His mum could be portrayed by a dwarf. Vince would get a kick out of it.

Dave: Interferes in matches to give him tins of spinach. Which cause him to get a burst of energy, like Popeye. At this point the best thing they can do with Ryback is give him a bunch of ludicrous gimmicks. He's not getting the main event back.

Dan: It could be a kind of Freudian situation, where he's unable to say no to anything she says. Including odd sexual gestures towards other wrestlers.

Dave: Until this moment I've never thought "I want to read that person's autobiography." But Vince? I would read that thing cover-to-cover on the day of release. NOBODY has a better combination of interesting life story and mad personality.

Dave: The sexual gestures thing is pure McMahon.

Dan: I know, right? Vince needs to write that. Hold nothing back.

Dave: Like the time he suggested that they do a storyline where he'd gotten Stephanie pregnant. She shot it down... like a ruddy coward!

Dave: Oh, Vince wouldn't hold anything back. If there was a way to write "that" walk he'd do it.

Dave: I want to read stories about him winning shoot fights with jobbers and then telling them "That's why you're at the bottom of the card!"

Dan: If you're going to do Katie Vick, why not that?! I wonder what the explanation for the pregnancy would be. How would they explain it? His grapefruits are SO powerful that they have, through some strange osmosis, impregnated even his own family?

Dave: I always assumed that if they did it that's EXACTLY how they'd end up explaining it. Vince being too sexually potent for his own good is textbook WWE.

Dave: I miss that era of wrestling. The era when Vince was having a mid-life crisis on international television. It made a lovely contrast to the Attitude Era without being TOO different.

Dan: Or they'd drag it out for months, and it would turn out in the end that it was just Hornswoggle's fault. Triple H would come out and deliver the most po-faced, rambling twenty-five minute promo explaining the whole thing.

Dan: 2005-2006 was just pure Vincey-time!

Dave: But it would still be the highlight of that week's television.

Dan: If he wasn't being blown up, he was dropping N-bombs!

Dave: It would end with Vince shaking his first and shouting "Hornswoggleeeeeeeeeeeeee!" like a character from a 70s sitcom.

Dan: Cena appears, shouts “JACK!” then leaves.

Dave: I'd forgotten the exploding limo story that got dropped without explanation (thanks, Benoit!). That's exactly the sort of thing I'd want Vince to write about. He wouldn't care about stuff that's gone wrong. He's that kind of cat.

Dan: End of episode. Cole giggles uncontrollably.

Dave: They could do a YouTube show where Cole is shown clips of fat people falling over, causing him to giggle uncontrollably.

Dan: Benoit. Always ruining perfectly implausible storylines!

Dave: That's why he never got to book.

Dan: "Stop talking about Krispen Wah!"

Dave: He looks like a trout having a stroke.

Dan: Look at Vince's peach suit!

Dave: Only one other man could pull that off: Mark Henry. And he wouldn't do as good a job.

Dan: Vince needs a match at WM 30. I vote for Vince vs Pancake Patterson.

Dan: 'Darren Young on a pole' match. There's a joke in there somewhere.

Dan: Last question: Royal Rumble winner?

Dave: The joke wouldn't be the one you expect. It would be Darren Young balanced precariously atop a Polish person.

Dave: Rumble winner I'm currently leaning toward Punk or Bryan. I don't want to say definitely on Bryan too soon in case his Wyatt Family stint is longer than I expect.

Dan: I'd like somebody out of left-field. Maybe Eva Marie. She seems to be deeply entrenched in the world of wrestling. Didn't she train in the Hart Dungeon?

Dave: Yes. She also did six months in a Japanese dojo and two years under a mask in Mexico.

Dave: She has also worked extensively for SHIMMER.

Dan: Don't forget those two years in ROH.

Dave: First woman to challenge for the ROH championship. She gave Joe a run for his money. The chops she dished out were some of the stiffest I've ever seen.

Dave: And I've seen some stiff chops...

Dave: She'd be a nice challenger for The Streak.

Dan: I say bring Flair out of retirement for a feud.

Dan: This wrestling conversation is 122 comments long.

Dave: Flair versus anyone would be gold. As long as he can chop, apply the figure four and do a Flair flop he's set.

Dave: This is some solid wrestling chat is what it is.

Dan: Where's Mike Takada King when you need him?

Dave: He's staying silent. And stealthy. Like a Japanese ninja.

Dan: He'll come in with a diamond soon. A diamond or a Booker quote.

Dan: AWWWWW......

Dave: Or a Diamond Cutter.

Dan: I haven't watched RAW. Is it worthwhile? I imagine Cena acts heroically dismal.

Dave: This might tease him out.

 

Dave: Cena acts like a medieval dragon slayer.

Dan: QWACKETY QWACK!!

Dave: If that was the NXT commentary team ratings would go through the roof.

Dan: Nash v Booker is the ULTIMATE commentary team.

Dan: Especially white-haired Nash.

Dave: Please note that Booker is not wearing a shirt.

Dan: A leopard-print jacket, but no shirt.

Dave: White-haired Nash is the best kind of Nash.

Dave: Booker no-sells shirts whenever he can.

Dave: Shirts held him down in WCW.

Dan: I just dropped a Ric Flair joke into a conversation about a university black tie event. I said I'd only go if I could dress like this:

 

Dave: Those robes allegedly cost thousands of dollars. You'd have spent more than anyone wearing a tux. You'd need to be prepared to throw it on the floor and elbow drop it. Maybe punch yourself in the forehead until you bleed...

Dan: I'm going to have to go method and knock some people out with my loafers.

Dave: Would you be prepared to do a Flair flop?

Dave: I dread to think what Flair would be like at a university event with alcohol and twenty-something females available to him.

Dan: I'm very prepared.

Dan: It would be his ultimate fuel. More so than an empty ring and the sight of his own blood.

Dan: Ric Flair v Dawn French. WM pre-show.

Dave: If Dawn wins she gets plane tickets back to England. If she loses she has to ride Space Mountain.

Dave: Woooooooooooooooooo!

Dan: My favourite thing is when Flair starts hyperventilating and can only pronounce one word at a time.

Dave: That's serious Flair. You don't wanna mess with serious Flair.

Dan: This video.

Dan: The first ten seconds illustrates this perfectly.

Dan: This is a work of art.

Dave: The bit with the ropes at 1.10...!

Dan: This is what I'm going to do at my university dinner.

Dan: WOOOOOOOOO!

Dave: This is the most perfect Flair video I've ever seen, and I've seen a lot. The best bit is that it's taken from ONE promo!

Dan: I imagine this is how it feels to be inside his mind.

Dave: Modern wrestlers need to learn how to cut an unscripted promo like this.

Dan: Where are his clothes?

Dave: I reckon his clothes were in the crowd before the three minute mark.

Dan: Modern wrestlers need to learn how to cut a SCRIPTED promo.

Dave: I want real personalities on TV. Ric Flair's not playing a character! That was an absolute shoot every Monday night. Woooooooooooooo!

Dave: I'm now watching him cut a promo on Goldberg.

Dave: "The line? The line?! The line! I am the line!" *Flair drops to the floor and rolls from side to side* "I'm the line!"

Dave: Ric Flair is magnificent.

Dan: His hair is magnificent.

Dave: Early 90s Flair had the best hair of all the Flairs.

Dave: I should point out that I like to imagine something akin to the Captain Britain Corps for Flair. All the Flairs of all the eras existing at once, all in different alternate universes.

Dan: "HE JUST RIFLED A GUCCI SHOE!"

Dave: I want to know the context of that and at the same time I don't. It's a magical quote.

Dave: This... this was some solid nonsense.

Dan: I think we should keep it rolling.

Michael: How did this get to 180?

Dave: How did it not get more?

***

¹ Mohnil is an acquaintance of Dan, myself and Michael. He’s a husky gentleman, hence the reference to him guzzling down an entire turkey. We’ve asked him to come onto the podcast several times before but he always says he’s busy. I know this isn’t true, I just can’t prove it.

That Wrestling Podcast Episode 17

That Wrestling Podcast Episode 17 by Dave Hatton on Mixcloud

Could this guy be 'The Man'?

Due to the nature of recording schedules there are sometimes references on podcasts that seem incongruous, peculiar or just plain incorrect. This episode features such an example. I refer to Cena potentially making his return at the Royal Rumble. In my defence this episode was recorded at the end of September and Cena has Wolverine-like healing abilities. There was no way I could have known he’d be back in action, as the World Heavyweight champion no less, by the time this got posted.

The central focus of the episode is how far three guys could make it up the WWE roster. Yeah, it’s one of those episodes. The men in question of Brodus Clay, The Ryback, and Big E Langston. It’s a big man special!

 

Also featured, in the opening moments, is a rant about hipsters buying food in Burger King. I’ll leave the identity of the ranter as a surprise.

That Wrestling Podcast Episode 7

That Wrestling Podcast Episode 7 by Dave Hatton on Mixcloud

I thought now would be a good time to do an episode on John Cena. His injury keeping him off of television meant that whatever was said was going to remain relatively current and relevant for a while. On a practical level it felt like we’d recorded enough episodes to tackle a slightly meatier topic than potential wrestling sitcoms or whether Kofi Kingston could ever be WWE champion.

So that’s what this episode is about. John Cena. We discuss everything we could reasonably be expected to:  the man’s limited ring style; whether or not he warrants his position; the popularity of his merchandise; when he’ll return; when he’ll return and what he’ll do when he does; and what he has left to accomplish in the promotion. Other topics get covered, but it’s mostly Cena.

That Wrestling Podcast Episode 2

That Wrestling Podcast Episode 2 by Dave Hatton on Mixcloud

That Wrestling Podcast isn't afraid to tackle the difficult questions. To illustrate that we ask one of wrestling's biggest... and it's only episode 2! Will TNA be around in five years? If they are what will they be doing and who'll be working there?

We have some ideas.

That Wrestling Podcast Episode 1

That Wrestling Podcast by Dave Hatton on Mixcloud

I’ve wanted to do a wrestling podcast for a while. The usual excuses are what’s stopped me: a lack of time, insufficient understanding of technology, and an absence of people knowledgeable and willing enough to record the thing with me. As evidenced by this blog I’ve not got a shortage of opinions on the wrestling business, it’s just everything else I’ve missed.

This situation changed when Michael, a guy I worked with in a bookshop, moved back to London. My technological ineptitude remains but I now have someone to record a podcast with. So we’ve recorded one, very kindly hosted by the Voices of Wrestling website (where odds and ends of my writing can also be found).
 

I wanted to post something here on the blog for two reasons. One is to plug the podcast, which I think we can all agree is a fairly natural thing to do. The second is that, due to a general unease when getting the thing onto the internet, I didn’t really manage to provide a decent summary of the episode. Where better to do that than here?

The idea was that Michael and I would start out discussing his time in Japan and then catch up on what’s been going on in wrestling over the last year or so (because he’s not managed to keep up with anything except the major developments). Aside from a couple of seconds to check that the sound quality was decent (it is) I’ve not listened to the thing back but I’d be surprised if we spend more than five minutes talking about Japan. So if you’re hoping this is going to be puro-heavy (why you’d think that when I never write about wrestling in Japan I don’t know) you’re going to be disappointed.

Things got better once we moved onto American wrestling. We discussed WWE a fair bit, although I can’t remember anything specific (which entirely contradicts what I said above but so be it), as well as TNA and Ring of Honor. The main TNA subjects were Bully Ray and Chris Sabin’s respective world titles reigns and the Aces and Eights storyline. We touched on the fact that the company’s future is pretty bleak, but that should surprise no one.

We picked our winners for the ROH world title tournament and discussed the merits of Kevin Steen and Davey Richards. Steve Corino came up too, if you still want to classify him as an ROH performer. In between all of this we discussed gimmicks in modern wrestling (including an idea for a mid-card WWE guy), WCW and Vince Russo.

It comes in at almost exactly two hours, which is a pleasingly round number that we reached completely at random. Future episodes, which will appear as and when we’ve time, will hopefully be shorter than that. Give it a listen (you can download it through the Voices of Wrestling iTunes account) and let us know what you think.

I now return you to your regularly scheduled complaints and suggestions.

Bell Time

The old Wembley Stadium had Bret Hart versus The British Bulldog in one of the finest matches of both men's careers and company history. That was at SummerSlam '92. A little over twenty years later Wembley Arena hosted Big Show versus Sheamus.
 
It was not as special.
 
Unfortunately due to a combination of my inability to read bell times printed on tickets and work being carried out on multiple Underground lines Dan Pryce and I arrived late to the show. We were in time to see a spirited finishing sequence to the Intercontinental title match. 'Wildcat' Kofi Kingston beat current chief rival The Miz. It was well received and the fans seemed very into Kofi, which was nice to see. Hopefully Kofi will continue to be presented as a key figure for a long time and this latest push won't peter out.

I wasn't the only one taking pictures

 

The showdown between 'The World's Largest Athlete' and 'The Celtic Warrior' was next. The London Irish rugby team were introduced first. They were accompanying Sheamus to the ring. He was introduced next, and received an impressive reaction from the crowd. He cut a promo about starting his career in London working for All Star Wrestling, which was nice but probably a lie: I'm pretty sure Sheamus first appeared in Irish Whip Wrestling. I could be wrong though.
 
World champion Big Show got a solid amount if heat when he made his entrance. Dan and I cheered him though. It's always fun to cheer bad guys at live events and neither of us are wild about Sheamus. Based off of their ring entrances alone you would have been entitled to expect a gripping encounter.
 
That wasn't what we saw. The match was filled with stalling, a ridiculous number of rest holds and overselling from Sheamus. It's fair to say the challenger spent most of the bout on the mat. He has shown far more resilience in his televised encounters with the giant. He didn't here because Show can't handle a fast pace on a regular basis.

That's what a world champion should look like (maybe)

 
The quality of the match made me wonder whether Sheamus can be considered one of WWE's best yet. Kids in the audience reacted to his comebacks and everyone reacted to his entrance. He wasn't able to win people over during his long sell jobs though. Clearly Big Show was never going to so the responsibility of keeping the crowd engaged should have fallen on babyface Sheamus. Cena or Orton would managed this through crowd engagement. Sheamus didn't really bother.
 
The Irishman has been receiving a sustained push since he won the Royal Rumble in January. His loss to Big Show was his first clean one of the year. WWE has done everything they can to protect Sheamus on his rise to the top. He beat Daniel Bryan in eighteen seconds (which was disappointing but did get the Brogue Kick over as a devastating move). He didn't lose once to Alberto Del Rio in their near six month programme and he routinely battered guys like Dolph Ziggler in matches designed to make the champion look like the star. His loss to Big Show at Hell in a Cell was his first clean one of 2012.
 
What they have failed to do is create a character for him.
 
Sheamus is nothing more than a collection of catchphrases, quirks and moves. All of these things gain reactions in their own right but they make him a two-dimensional character with no motivation beyond enjoying a fight and wanting to be a champion. Isn't it true on some level that all wrestlers enjoy a fight? They wouldn't have chosen this profession if not. They all want to win championships too.
 
As is the case with many of WWE's top talent at the moment Sheamus needs a change or a rest. Considering how light the current roster is a rest seems unlikely. Unfortunately a change doesn't look like it's coming any time soon either. WWE have not spent months presenting Sheamus as a marketable babyface only to turn him heel again, no matter how many fresh opponents and feuds it could create and the good it would do his career in the long run.
 
It's what they should do though. A year ago I thought Sheamus had what it took to get over at the highest level in WWE. He's had the chance and though he's proven popular he has not developed enough character or had enough great matches to show that he has staying power. Last night's apathetic crowd, along with similar reactions in his recent televised outings, proved that.
 
Back to Wembley. Sheamus won the match via DQ when Big Show wouldn't break a hold (or something equally heelish (although he didn't appear to have done anything wrong from where I was sitting)). 'Great White' had already hit a White Noise during the match so the post-match move had to be a Brogue Kick. Show sold that nicely and the former champ minced around ringside slapping hands to send fans home happy.
 
Next time you go to a wrestling show I recommend double and triple checking bell times.

That RAW Recap 16.04.12

Over the years I’ve been to quite a few wrestling shows. I’ve been to events held by various British indies. I was there for ROH’s first (joint) show in the UK. I saw CM Punk and Colt Cabana’s first match outside of the United States. I’ve been to a SmackDown taping and a RAW house show. I was even at the London Arena in November 2000 when WCW filmed Nitro (that was an interesting experience). But it wasn’t until last night (alongside friend and former colleague Dan Pryce) that I was able to say I’d seen Monday Night RAW filmed live.

I’m happy to say that the RAW taping was the best WWE show I’ve ever been to. The crowd was lively from start to finish and we got to see every big name you could realistically hope for. There was no Brock Lesnar but he was never going to be there. I was happy with the names on offer.

The seats we had were close to the entrance, which was good, but slightly behind the Titantron, which was bad. We got a pretty good view of wrestlers as they entered but couldn’t see anything that happened on the big screen. Thankfully it was a vignette-light episode so the lack of ‘tron view wasn’t as catastrophic as it could have been.

We were close to the exit at the side of the stage, which meant we could occasionally catch glimpses inside the Gorilla Position and cheer (or boo) some of the wrestlers as they left. The very first wrestler I saw was thanks to those seats: Damien Sandow came to sneak a peek at the set and the crowd. That would be the only time we’d see him: he didn’t wrestle or appear in other capacity.

The opening match was announced as being for Superstars but as the commentary team were introduced directly after its conclusion I’m not convinced that was right. It saw Dean Ambrose defeat Alex Riley with a cheeky rollup. Most fans chanted “Who are ya?” at the developmental talent. As I recognised him and prefer him to the nondescript A-Ry I cheered him. Cheering heels would be a theme of the evening.

Match two was a lengthy-by-current-standards Divas contest. Kelly Kelly entered first to an almost Cena-like mixed reaction. Kids and their parents cheered her. Everyone else seemed keener on Eve Torres. I was firmly in the Eve camp. She got the surprise win. By WWE standards it was a good women’s match.

That was followed by Jack Swagger losing to R-Truth. Truth got a good reaction but couldn’t hold onto the crowd for the whole match: a few minutes in “Let’s go Swagger!” chants started up.

Lillian Garcia was out next to sing God Save The Queen. It’s nice that WWE goes to the trouble of having our national anthem sung but it’s not in the nature of the British to go wild for it. That’s more of an American thing. As such Lillian got booed for most of her performance, the crowd only relenting at the end to cheer and clap her. Hopefully she understood it wasn’t anything personal.

Mark Henry lolloped to the ring before RAW officially started. That saved valuable airtime: the guy does not walk quickly. The main show kicked off with the advertised WWE title match between Henry and champion CM Punk. ‘The Second City Saint’ got a great reaction and somehow managed to drag ‘The World’s Sweatiest Man’ to a bearable outing. That’s no small feat when you consider how cumbersome and limited Henry truly is.

I thought this was a great match. It was possibly the only contest of the night where I cheered the face and booed the heel. There were chants of “CM Punk”, “Sexual Chocolate” and many cries of “Yes!” Punk went over with the Macho Man Elbow, which drew loud cheers from the audience.

CM Punk prepares to drop the match winning Macho Elbow

Jericho then appeared on the Titantron for a lengthy exchange with the champ. We weren’t able to see him from where we were but we could hear him. That was (mostly) enough. ‘Y2J’ again taunted ‘The Voice of the Voiceless’ about being drunk and then introduced some footage. Punk handily referenced the footage so we knew it was a shot of him doing something at a pub. He reaffirmed he’s straight edge and then ‘The Highlight of the Night’ revealed the two will clash for the WWE championship in a Chicago Street Fight at Extreme Rules. That should be one of the better matches on the show.

RAW’s second match was for the United States title. Champion Santino Marella was introduced first. He stood at the top of the ramp peeling off various football shirts to get heat. As I’m not a football fan I wouldn’t have reacted even if I could have seen this display. I wouldn’t have recognised what shirt belonged to what team, and wouldn’t have cared if I had. Having watched the broadcast I now know that one of the kits belonged to Chelsea. Amusingly this prompted Jerry Lawler to say "Come on, Santino, you're in London! That won't work here!" ‘The King’ needs to work on his geography.

David Otunga came out to face him. He got a loud cheer from me. I’m a fan of Otunga, largely because he’s so ridiculous and prone to botching moves. He was on fine form last night, at one point even managing to go for a cover incorrectly. That, as Michael Cole would say, is vintage Otunga. Laurinaitis’s legal aid predictably lost. The match was nowhere near as enjoyable as simply seeing David Otunga.

Backstage Josh Mathews spoke to Lord Tensai and his young boy. A kid sat in front of me said to his friend “We’re going to see Lord Tensai. He’s funny.” That should tell you all you need to know about whether the former A-Train is over as a monster heel.

A Lesnar video aired. It lost a surprising amount of impact without being able to see the accompanying footage. The message was basically that ‘The Pain’ sees himself as an athlete and an ass-kicker, not a superstar. He didn’t come back because he missed the crowd or going through the curtain. He came back because he likes to beat people up and win. He also said had he stayed around Cena wouldn’t be where he is now. I’d disagree with that. Cena still would’ve gotten over and Lesnar would have remained at the top of the card but fizzled out a little. His initial success was as much thanks to willing opponents and the good booking of Paul Heyman and Vince McMahon as it was his own ability.

Kane came out to squash Ryder. Amusingly he stood in the ring for around three minutes as his attacks on Ryder and Randy Orton were recapped. He then slapped Ryder about at ringside and then gave him a choke slam in the ring. That was followed by a tedious promo that I’ve sat through twice but still couldn’t tell you the point of.

Woo woo woo! You got beat!

Backstage Kofi Kingston was talking to AJ in hushed tones. I like to think he was saying something vastly inappropriate. Daniel Bryan showed up. I couldn’t see any of this but I knew immediately that Bryan was on the screen because the audience erupted with chants of “Yes!” Bryan told Kofi that just because he didn’t want AJ that didn’t make it open season, then told AJ that he would make ‘The Dreadlocked Dynamo’ tap out to the LeBell Lock. He stopped himself there and said that he didn’t like the move having that name as he was far greater than Jean LeBell. He said the move would be known as the Yes Lock, then shouted “Yes!” over and over again directly into Kofi’s face. It was hilarious.

That was followed by a John Cena promo. The face of the company received his traditional mixed reaction, though there were more boos than cheers. Cena is not a popular man in London. He talked about how he thinks John Laurinaitis wants to replace him with Brock Lesnar. Storyline-wise that’s probably the case: ‘Mr Excitement’ is a heel and so naturally wants to dispatch all top babyfaces. That’s how WWE works. The truth is that Cena is not going anywhere. He’s far too valuable to WWE and everybody knows it.

John Laurinatis strolled out onto the stage to refute Cena’s conspiracy theory claims and book him in a match. We were told it would be an Extreme Rules match but wouldn’t reveal the name of Cena’s opponent. Why? Apparently it’s something to do with People Power. Whatever. I was just excited to see John Laurinaitis and hear his raspy voice. Unfortunately his mic work left a little to be desired live and it was difficult to hear what he was saying. Thankfully Cena recapped it during the break. He earned some humour points there.

Next was the best match of the evening: Kofi Kingston v Daniel Bryan. There was no way we were going to boo Bryan during this. The “Yes!” meme is just too over and Bryan is too well respected. Kofi started off getting a good reaction but eventually ended up hearing boos… as well as shouts of “No!” when he started getting offence. Pretty much strike the former World champion got in elicited cries of “Yes!” Following his win via the Yes Lock Bryan reapplied the hold (which finally got him some boos) until Sheamus ran out to make the save.

Daniel Bryan! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes!

I think WWE are going to have to seriously consider turning Bryan face again. He’s very good in the heel role but he’s just so popular that it’s going to be hard for him to stay over as a bad guy. Once his run with Sheamus is over I hope he becomes a good guy again. A feud between he and a heel Christian would be great to see.

‘The Funkasurus’ continued his run of unmitigated popularity, getting a big pop from the London crowd. He was one of the highlights of the night for me, up there with Daniel Bryan, CM Punk and David Otunga. As much as I enjoyed seeing Brodus Clay I was even more excited to see Dolph Ziggler, his opponent for the evening.

It would be generous to refer to what happened between Ziggler and Clay as a match. ‘The Show Off’ took a suplex before Swagger got into the ring and took a headbutt. Ziggler then took one of his trademark ridiculous bumps to a loud pop and Vickie got into the ring to be shoved to the floor by Naomi. Brodus and his girls then posed and danced as the heels slinked off to the back.

Backstage John Laurinaitis gave David Otunga a pep talk about focusing on his career. Eve showed up and the three went into what was presumably Laurinaitis’s office. No comment.

A video for Chief Jay Strongbow was followed by more backstage shenanigans with R-Truth and Teddy Long. These videos had been played throughout the night. Having seen them I can honestly say they wouldn’t have added to my enjoyment of the show at all.

The penultimate match of the night saw Big Show team up with The Great Khali to take on Epico and Primo. Why the tag champions were chosen for job duty is a mystery. Show has been feuding with Cody Rhodes and Khali been involved in a SmackDown pseudo-rivalry with Drew McIntyre. Why those more prominent heels didn’t get to face Khali and Show I can’t say. Still, at least we got to see Rosa Mendes. That’s never a bad thing.

The heels tried to escape but were caught by Big Show. They then took a choke slam and a Punjabi Plunge back in the ring. Show and Khali then did some embarrassing dancing. Something I didn’t realise was that Abraham Washington was stood at the entrance during the match. I like the way WWE are using him so far and I hope he gets to become a prominent manager. Next time I’ll buy better seats so I can see random FCW call-ups when they stroll out to watch matches.

After the final break of the evening John Cena came back out for his Extreme Rules match. He got a few more cheers on his second appearance. Perhaps because people knew he wouldn’t be talking. I still booed him.

His mystery opponent was introduced by John Laurinaitis and David Otunga (who sat at ringside during the bout). It was Lord Tensai. On commentary Lawler referenced the man’s previous time with WWE and subsequent success in Japan. I was disappointed that there was no back hair to chant about but the loud chants of “Albert!” made up for it.

The crowd was indifferent to Tensai's pre-match disrobing ceremony

Before that match I’d be fairly disinterested in the former A-Train. It seemed as though he was yet another guy being introduced to television with the winning streak gimmick. You can only see that so many times before it becomes boring. That he got to face Cena on his third week of TV is a positive sign for Tensai. The match was a slow starter but when it got going it was pretty enjoyable. The two men brawled around ringside, with Tensai taking a shot from the steel steps particularly well, before heading back into the ring. Otunga involved himself, tossing SuperCena back into the ring to take Tensai’s double underhook facebuster for a two count.

They battled back and forth for a few more minutes before Otunga interjected himself again. He took an AA, which allowed Tensai to catch Cena by surprise with a green mist and double-handed choke bomb for the win. I’d taken it for granted that Cena would be victorious so I was pleased that Tensai went over. Technically it was a clean win too, as the Extreme Rules meant that the mist was not illegal.

After the match Tensai posed in the ring and Cena oversold in a corner. Once the cameras stopped rolling the various heels sauntered to the back while medical staff assisted Cena up the aisle. That Cena sold the mist so much was ridiculous. It may get it over as a dangerous “move” but it only highlights the fact that Cena never sells for younger stars, only for established guys (and Tensai’s former time with the company puts him firmly into the latter camp).

The dark match main event saw Chris Jericho (who didn’t appear in the ring during RAW) take on CM Punk. The champion attacked the challenger before the bell and they had a brief exchange in the ring before Daniel Bryan dashed out to cause the disqualification finish. That brought out Sheamus to even the odds. He was followed by Cody Rhodes, who was followed by Big Show. They were then joined by Alberto Del Rio and Randy Orton. Orton and Sheamus hit their finishers then went round ringside high-fiving fans to send us home happy.

Chris Jericho enters for his dark match main event. He was not the highlight of the night...

Not only was this a good episode of RAW it was a great experience live. It narrowly pips the SmackDown taping I went to last year as the most enjoyable WWE event I’ve attended (and the SmackDown event was only in the running as I got to see a Five Second Pose from Edge and Christian). I’d recommend going to see RAW whenever it’s in the area. The list of names on offer makes it well worth it.