That Wrestling Podcast Episode 28

That Wrestling Podcast Episode 28 by Dave Hatton on Mixcloud

This episode of That Wrestling Podcast sees Michael and me continue our habit of discussing WWE pay-per-views just after they’ve happened. My view of the show is already available. I’ve stated that it was WWE’s worst pay-per-view offering of the year, mainly because it featured only one match of significance and an undercard with absolutely no thought put into at all. If a show is shunting CM Punk and Daniel Bryan into meaningless filler and omitting talented guys like Alberto Del Rio and Dolph Ziggler then something’s going wrong somewhere.

AJ Styles will be back

In short Michael disagrees with this. He’s got some reasons for doing so, they’re just not ones I agree with. You might though.

TLC was not the only major show from last weekend. Ring of Honor also presented Final Battle. When we recorded that show hadn’t been made available for viewing, but we’d both read the results and discussed the matches, swerves and returns. It sounds like a show designed to set up a new direction for ROH. Sadly that direction doesn’t sound especially interesting. I’m reserving full judgement until the show’s online though, obvs.

The final topic discussed on this episode is AJ Styles contractual status with TNA. Is it a work? Is it genuine? Will he ever be back on Impact? If he is what will he do? All of that’s discussed, along with our feelings on ‘The Phenomenal One’s’ general worth to TNA and ability as a wrestler.

TLC 2013 review

It was obvious with everything from the announced card to the build-up to the show that WWE were only concerned with one match at their TLC pay-per-view. That was the World Heavyweight championship and WWE championship title tables, ladders and chairs match. It’s understandable. Unifying the two world titles which have vied for importance for the past eleven years was a big deal, one of the biggest thing WWE could promote. Not only that but it featured two of the biggest names of the past decade. Clearly this was a match capable of carrying the pay-per-view by itself.

That it was expected to is a shame. With a decent undercard to support it that match could have been the centrepiece of a truly unmissable event. By embracing complacency WWE denied themselves and fans a genuinely special evening.

Let me be clear. I’m not arguing that the WWE versus World Heavyweight championship match should have been reserved for a more important show like Royal Rumble or WrestleMania. That may have been a preferable scenario but it wasn’t necessary. What I’m arguing is that WWE could have elevated the importance of an average B level pay-per-view by booking an undercard that meant something. Had every match meant something and had a story behind it the show as a whole would have been far stronger.

That they didn’t do this shows a disappointing lack of common sense from WWE. I’d ask why they feel it appropriate to settle for mediocrity but I already know the answer. It’s because their number one. They don’t feel compelled to push themselves outside of the Rumble to ‘Mania stretch.

The TLC pre-show was the usual blend of inoffensive expert panel mugging, video packages and forgettable match. Doing the honours in the latter were Dolph Ziggler and Faaaaaan… daaaaaan… goooooo. ‘The Ballroom Brute’ got the surprise win in a competent affair.

The expert panel was comprised of Mick Foley (wearing a Santa hat), The Miz, and Booker T. The show as being held in Houston, which made the inclusion of Booker completely natural. Less natural was the appearance of Kofi Kingston. He rocked up to slap Miz as a part of their continuing feud. Booker and Foley separated them. The highlight of this sequence was Booker T. Because he’s Booker T.

The pre-show ended with Triple H, Stephanie and Vince McMahon stepping out of a limo. That got the biggest pop of the entire pre-show. Vinnie Mac can still work wonders.

The PPV proper began with Trips and Steph strolling into the entranceway to talk up the importance of the night. It was, apparently, the biggest night in the history of the company and wrestling (yes, they said wrestling!). ‘The Game’ talked up the prestige of both titles and mentioned that there had been two world champions ever since Lou Thesz and Buddy Rogers fought to a split decision. I’ll get more into lineages below. Michael Cole talked up the title situation too, but it felt hollow and half-hearted. This was an event that really missed the involvement of Jim Ross. He’d have expressed the same sentiments as Cole, but he’d have done a better job of convincing viewers he was speaking the truth.

The opening match saw CM Punk take on The Shield. For the record the trio had to tag in and out. The match started slowly, with Punk outwrestling and outsmarting Ambrose and Rollins. He didn’t do so well when Reigns was tagged in: the big man floored him almost instantly.

A few minutes into their exchange the two headed to ringside. Reigns dove at Punk as ‘The Second City Saint’ lent on the commentary desk, apparently trying for a spear. Punk dodged out of the way, sending Reigns sailing over the table and into JBL’s chair. He made it back into the ring by the count of seven but spent several minutes being attended to by a medic as Ambrose and Rollins continued the battle with Punk. There was, we were told, something wrong with his eye. In truth it was part of the script to allow the match to continue credibly.

Punk fought back against the remaining ‘Hound of Justice’, holding his own like a true headline babyface. Several minutes went by before Rollins was taken out with a GTS and Reigns re-entered proceedings to attempt another spear. Punk sidestepped it again. This time it was Ambrose waiting in place of the announce desk. Punk quickly tossed the big man out of the ring and pinned Ambrose.

The story was that Reigns’ actions had cost The Shield the contest. It will presumably contribute to the breakup storyline that seems certain to come out way soon.

Backstage Divas champion AJ Lee told Renee Young that she was the only woman in the division that mattered and that nobody has her number. Presumably CM Punk's not included in that statement. Speaking of Punk, AJ channelled him in her promo when she said she's been the champ for 133 days.

The champion’s defence against Natalya was acceptable but nothing amazing. Both women countered their foe’s submission hold. Natty tried hers once too often, getting rolled up with a small package on her second attempt. She cried in the ring as AJ cavorted to the back with Tamina. Booking women to do that does them no favours. Kaitlyn did it earlier in the year and got booed. Guys don’t cry when the lose championships. Having women do it makes them look inferior. And if they look inferior they’re not going to be taken seriously.

Damien Sandow cut a promo on the Texas vernacular as he headed to the ring for his match with Intercontinental champion Big E Langston. It turned the audience against him but didn't convince them to significantly rally behind Big E (which is just as much the goal as having them boo the heel with this kind of promo). Big E didn’t talk as he came to the ring but he did bellow.

‘King’ compared the significance of Big E’s title reign to Bret Hart v Davey Boy Smith at Wembley during the introductions. That deserved an eye roll and it got one. The match was basic. Langston went over with the Big Ending. A welcome surprise was the loud reaction the crowd gave him when he pulled the straps on his singlet down. It bodes well.

Backstage Vince shook Randy's hand and had a verbal exchange that we couldn’t hear. The same thing would happen later with John Cena. It was all scintillating television!

Cole camped it up when throwing to the expert panel. They replayed the confrontation between Kofi and Miz from the pre-show. Booker tried to be serious but ended up laughing. It was lovely. Foley was still dressed as Santa and still looked awful. The purpose of the segment was to have Miz v Kingston announced. That was it.

The tag team title match was next. The Real Americans, Rey Mysterio and Big Show (the man who headlined the previous pay-per-view) and RybAxel all challenged the Rhodes bros in an elimination rules match. RybAxel were eliminated first when Goldust rolled up Ryback. Swagger immediately hit the ring and he and Cesaro successfully kept Goldy isolated for several minutes, tagging in and out between themselves. ‘The Bizarre One’ eventually managed to make a hot tag to Big Show (after one to Cody had been thwarted). ‘The Giant’ steamrolled Cesaro and then KOed both ultra-patriots with his WMD punch. That left MysteriShow to face the champs.

Goldust took the first stint against the challengers. He survived Show's large hands and finally tagged his brother, something which wasn’t milked at all and could have been. It didn't take long for a heavily winded Show to tag out to Rey, allowing the pace to quicken for a compelling finishing sequence. Rey countered a springboard into a power bomb in one of the best moments of the match, then leapt off the top rope only to be caught in a Cross Rhodes attempt. He escaped that and went for a 619, which was blocked and countered by Cody. That was countered too as Rey rolled Cody up for a believable near fall. Seconds later Rey went for some of his body twirling offence only to finally be caught with a Cross Rhodes for the three count.

The Rhodes boys retained the gold. As the four were all babyfaces there was plenty of handshaking after the match. Code of Honor style!

Backstage the Prime Time Players, The Great Khali, Los Matadores, Vickie Guerrero and Brad Maddox played with some Brawlin' Buddies (WWE toys, basically). Then the lighting turned red and Kane's music played. Kane walked in, intimidated everyone else away and then had a quiet play himself (not like that). The backstage music intro is great. It's another reason the current use of Kane is so enjoyable.

Back out in the ring Brodus Clay was upset (WWE's choice of phrase, not mine) by R-Truth after being distracted by a row he had with Tensai and the Funkadactyls. The match was instantly forgotten. It was on the card to help us all accept Brodus Clay as something more than the comedy performer he’s been for the best part of two years.

Match six was just as pointless and match five. Kofi Kingston and The Miz clashed in a no disqualification match. Kofi won a surprisingly sloppy and mistimed bout after ‘The Awesome One’s’ head collided with an exposed turnbuckle (which he himself had exposed earlier in the match). Moments before the finish came the crowd had been chanting "Boring!"

While it’s good that WWE are trying to give mid-carders something to do that chant should tell them that they have to do more than go through the motions when booking this stuff. Kofi and Miz should learn something from it too. Wrestling, particularly in WWE, is about more than having good matches. They should do everything they can to draw people into their dispute so that we care about the matches when they happen.

The penultimate match was the evening's second handicap affair. Daniel Bryan took on the three members of the Wyatt Family. Something that surprised me was how uninterested the crowd were when the Wyatts entered the arena. The trio can usually be relied on to get a strong reaction. Not so here. They warmed up as soon as the bell rang. Clearly they just wanted to see Bryan in action. That's got to be a positive for WWE and 'The Dazzler'.

The first several minutes saw Harper and Rowan flatten Bryan. Once he was with down Bray tagged in for the first time, yelling that he wanted to help and be friends with Bryan. 'The Eater of Worlds' floored Bryan with an impressive throwing suplex and then prompted a "That was creepy!" chant by rolling around giggling before doing his upside-down crab walk thing.

Bray offered Bryan a final chance to join the family and get the predictable negative response. That ultimately led to a comeback for ‘The King of Beards’, culminating with an attempted Yes Lock on Bray. The faction leader slipped out, pummelled Bryan with forearms to the face and then dropped him with Sister Abigail for the victory. The result wasn’t surprising, but the relative ease it was gained with was. The Wyatts posed over Bryan afterwards, with Bray cradling Bryan's head to his chest.

After a final, inconsequential check-in with the experts it was time for the evening’s world title unification match. The pre-match video focused on Orton and Cena's careers paralleling each other. It was very effective. It also went to great lengths to paint the World Heavyweight championship as a direct descendant of the NWA world championship. Even though the NWA title is still active elsewhere as a separate entity an argument can be made for WWE’s version of events being true. It was misleading though.

This isn't surprising. It's WWE at their hyperbolic best. Altering their own history to suit current plots is what they do. I wanted to draw attention to the fact that they weren’t entirely accurate though. The match was not, as was implied by the video and stated by JBL and Cole on commentary, fifty years in the making. As the WCW-slash-World championship was presented as an NWA continuation when unified with the WWF championship in 2001 the lineages had already been combined. That wasn’t mentioned once throughout the entire show. Obviously.

Much was made of the fact that Orton had never been in a tables, ladders, and chairs match as he strolled to the ring. Too much, in fact. Trying to paint Cena as an underdog was insulting. Everyone watching knew that Cena was the favourite, but not to the extent that Orton became an underdog. Both have been pushed heavily for years on end and that meant that the match was as even as a Cena match can be.

Orty and Cena both entered spirited performances, belting one another with chair shots and hurling themselves around ringside, and taking several big bumps. Clearly they wanted to have this match meet its hype and apparent status, and deserve credit for taking that attitude.

The booking didn't help them. 'The Viper' had to recover far too quickly after being dropped through a table (this happened twice). Cena was booked to sell blows from a microphone (yeah, those small things covered in plastic and foam) more. And a Jeff Hardy-like spot which saw Cena hanging from the belts probably sounded exciting when devised but was unimpressive in practice. It would have been better had the belts been hanging higher, but then this spot is the reason they were so low.

Then there were the handcuffs. They were introduced to allow for a win that didn’t weaken Cena too much. 'The Franchise' was locked to the central rope by his fiendish opponent and then smacked with a ladder (which he no-sold). Orty set up the ladder in the ring but he’d taken too long: Cena had wrenched the turnbuckle pad free and gained access to the centre of the ring. He sent Orton sprawling to the floor. Moments later he was pulled off the ladder using the ring rope and landed in the general vicinity of a table. He was probably meant to go through it because he sold as if he had.

Orton then very slowly clambered up the ladder and, after pausing a couple of times to stare at his fallen opponent, unhooked the belts. As he posed with his prize JBL said people will talk about the night in one hundred years. That nonsense was thankfully overshadowed by The Authority walking to the ring to Vince McMahon's music. All three congratulated him as Cena say at ringside staring and looking glum.

The finish makes sense. Cena can work programmes of interest without the belt. That’s not necessarily the case with Orton right now. His purpose has become to act as a paper champion for The Authority. Without that role he’d be back to drifting aimlessly. As he’s going to be on TV no matter it’s preferable for him to be doing something.

The win also sets up a potential match with CM Punk at Royal Rumble or WrestleMania. While that match isn’t fresh it’s one we haven’t seen for a while and something that could, if handled well, be fun to follow. What’s next for Cena is less clear but I wouldn’t be surprised if it involved him being denied a rematch and promising to win the Rumble, possibly being entered at number one by the heels. TLC may not have been the most entertaining show of the year for WWE but it delivered on its main event and, more importantly, has done a good job setting up an intriguing batch of storylines for the next month.

Just think of how different things would have been with a functioning mid-card.

A Conversation With Dan Pryce

If you’ve listened to That Wrestling Podcast you’ll probably have heard mention of Dan. We had intended for him to be a regular contributor but it’s not really worked out. Partly because he doesn’t live near enough to London to make recording easy for him and partly because he’s just become a dad. Congrats again, brother!

But not being able to record with him doesn’t mean I don’t speak to him. Facebook comments are regularly exchanged, almost exclusively about wrestling. Sometimes they’re brief flurries and sometimes they span dozens of posts and hundreds of words. And just recently I had the idea of converting one of these exchanges into a blog post, giving everyone the flavour of Dan Pryce (oh!) I want them to experience despite not being able to record with him.

Below you’ll find a conversation from Facebook. The fact that it’s from Facebook should be remembered: it’s all very informal and not originally designed for being a blog post. A light bit of editing has been performed but for the most part it’s the conversation exactly as it first appeared. To clarify the opening comment was a post on my wall. The rest are comments on that.

Consider this an unofficial podcast entry.

***

Dan: Just watched Survivor Series. Worst main event in living memory.

Dave: It's not good is it? Even with Orton stalling and ringside brawling Show could only handle eleven minutes. He was blown up walking to the ring.

Dave: The best bit was the crowd singing his music.

Dan: It genuinely made me a little bit depressed.

Dave: What do you think was the best match?

Dan: I enjoyed the first match. It was kind of slow and flowed badly, but there were good spots and Reigns was excellent. That was a push, if ever I saw one. I couldn't sit through Ryback v Mark Henry. I'd rather sit through Mohnil¹ imbibing a whole turkey. The Punk and Bryan match was pretty okay. I expected something a little more. Cena v Del Rio was just their last match, without the benefit of the surprise factor. Cena very much got beaten and Del Rio very much did that angry Mexican face.

Dan: I'm still not entirely sold on the Wyatts. Great gimmick, sloppy wrestling.

Dan: Harper and Rowan are big men who do lots of hitting.

Dan: #hitting

Dave: I thought the opener was the best thing and it all went downhill after, with various peaks and troughs. Reigns was wonderful. Things were laid out for him to look great and he made sure he did. Totally agree about Cena v Del Rio.

Dave: I'm not sold on Erick 'Upside Down Sheamus Face' Rowan. I like me some Luke Harper though. That guy is magic. Bray's the best wrestler of the three but he always seems to be injured. He's had three or four sidelining injuries in the last year. He's the new Batista...

Dan: He DOES have an upside-down Sheamus face!

Dan: I'm deeply, deeply, utterly ambivalent about Orton v Cena. At least this means they won't do it at WM.

Dave: Do you think the titles are actually going to be unified? A lot of people seem to think they’ll be swapped.

Dan: I think they'll switch them somehow. Or more shenanigans. I smell Big Show's big fist.

Dan: Ohhh.

Dave: I think there's a chance of Cena v Bryan II at WrestleMania. And apparently Sheamus is pushing for an Undertaker match.

Dan: I'd rather see Undertaker wrestle a bun.

Dave: My immediate reaction was that Cena will win. Because he's Cena.

Dan: Cena wins, starts a feud with The Authority, something happens, Big Show cries.

Dan: Why didn't they wait for Rumble to do Orton v Cena?

Dan: That would have been huge. Keep it going for Elimination Chamber, send them both into big feuds for WM. THAT'S booking. *pow*

Dave: I thought that about the Rumble. I had my hopes pinned on Cena defending against Cesaro at TLC. And I expected an Orton v Show rematch.

Dave: Regarding you preferring Undertaker v a bun to Undertaker v Sheamus, I'd prefer Undertaker v the concept of buns to Undertaker v Sheamus.

Dave: I do not like Sheamus.

Dave: Undertaker v a Stetson > Undertaker v Sheamus

Dan: It's not that I don't like him. It's just that anything bad that happens in the world is directly attributable to the existence of Sheamus.

Dave: Apparently he's shaved off his beard and-or hair while injured. Which makes him even more generic than he was before.

Dave: Forget the brogue kick. You're not beating Undertaker with that.

Dan: I genuinely do not know what they have planned for WM. Very little, I suspect. OR: they may have something remarkable lined up.

Dan: Sheamus minus the beard looks like Kreplach:

 

Dan: Kreplach with a face.

Dave: Is that a recent photo of him? He's lost weight...

Dan: Very recent.

Dan: I'm particularly enjoying the 'Daniel Bryan' chants whenever Orton appears. Sometimes, you can just count on wrestling fans to be wonderful dicks.

Dave: They don't have anything remarkable lined up. Lesnar v Undertaker and Cena v Hogan are what I'm expecting.

Dave: Yeah, that's right. Cena v Hogan.

Dan: That would be...

Dan: It would be kreplach again.

Dave: How are you going to feel when Bryan appears wearing a vest and jeans and cuts a promo about Bray Wyatt being the messiah?

Dan: Cena's vehemently denied that he thinks Hogan will wrestle. So you're probably right. We're probably in for it.

Dave: Rock told interviewers he was retired a few months before he hosted WrestleMania and set up his Cena match. I hadn't heard that about Cena so I'm now even more sure Hogan will wrestle. And if he does Cena is the obvious match.

Dan: I'd like a Bryan heel turn. I'd like him to live in the basement, eat only things he finds in the trash, recite Edgar Allen Poe poems and wrestle in a full body tweed-in-one.

Dan: Is Rock at WM 30? I think it needs his bulging, 'about-to-explode' head.

Dan: Also, Orton is not a heel. He's just a guy who has stumbled upon a belt.

Dave: Triple H and Stephanie are bigger heels than Orton. Rock probably won't wrestle but I think he'll do something at WrestleMania.

Dave: That he's probably not wrestling is part of why I think Hogan will.

Dave: They should splash the cash and do Hogan v Cena and Punk v Austin.

Dan: I hope he stages some sort of eating contest. Involving Mark Henry, Brie Bella and Ron Simmons. The Rock, that is.

Dave: Ends with Brie giving everyone her finisher (which she'll have by then).

Dave: Hogan v Cena, Austin v Punk and Lesnar v Undertaker would be a good triple main event line-up. Won't happen though. Austin's done.

Dan: Austin ain't coming back. It's hard to see how they can rise to the thirty years challenge. Lesnar v Taker is a good start. Punk v Bryan would be great. But there always needs to be one, mind-blowing, “this match will never happen-oh, wait, it's happening” match-for-the-ages match at these events. Maybe Michaels will come back? Not that I'd want him to. Hogan v Cena fits the bill. It also fits the “I do not want this match” bill.

Dave: How about the other potential Hogan match: Hogan v Undertaker?

Dan: URGH.

Dave: Just read a rumour that Cena will win the WWE championship and Orton will win the World Heavyweight championship. This is something I thought about and then dismissed as too daft even for them. It surprises me to find it on a credible (as far as such sites can be credible) news site.

Dave: They didn't even want to do a unification match until mid-week. That's why they didn't say the word on RAW. That's why the company's as uninspiring as it is.

Dan: They need to pull their fingers out of their asses.

Dave: They need to buy the rights to Red Dwarf and introduce a stable based on the cast.

Dave: Goldberg v Ryback? That'd be LOLage.

Dan: I'd LOL. If LOL means self-harm.

Dave: It's what The Ryback wants. If that means some fans self-harm then so be it.

Dan: Ryback is as relevant as disco.

Dave: So you want Ryback versus Disco Inferno?

Dave: Or Ryback versus Disco Inferno... AND ALEX WRIGHT?

Dave: I want WrestleMania XXX to feature a guest appearance from Stephen Fry in a full length QI segment. Guests to be The Rock, Ryback, Kevin Nash and Booker T.

Dan: Four way dance: Ryback, Horace Hogan, Judy Bagwell vs. Taz (2013 version). Inferno match. On a pole.

Dave: Bret Hart on a pole inferno match?

Dan: First one to Bret Hart gets to tag-team with Alex Riley.

Dave: Bret Hart would no-sell being on a pole like an absolute trooper.

Dan: He'd give the match 4/10 though.

Dave: Loser must star as Jack in a full remake of Lost.

Dan: I'd very much like to see Judy Bagwell replace the lead actor in famous TV shows.

Dave: Commentary team for this consists of Brad Maddox, Gillberg and David Mitchell.

Dan: "IT'S THE ISLAND, KATE!"

 

Dave: I've often thought that about Judy Bagwell. I'd particularly like to see her in recent non-hit Under The Dome. As the male bearded lead, natch.

Dave: Oh, Judy Bagwell. I miss you so much. Thank you for giving us Buff. He is indeed the stuff.

Dan: I think they need more wrestler mother storylines. I miss Shelton Benjamin's momma daily.

Dave: They should have done more with Brodus Clay's "momma" (who looked considerably younger than him) when she made that cameo at WrestleMania.

Dave: You know who'd be perfect for the mother gimmick? Ryback.

Dave: He could start bellowing "Feed me more!" again. And she could do it!

Dan: His mum could be portrayed by a dwarf. Vince would get a kick out of it.

Dave: Interferes in matches to give him tins of spinach. Which cause him to get a burst of energy, like Popeye. At this point the best thing they can do with Ryback is give him a bunch of ludicrous gimmicks. He's not getting the main event back.

Dan: It could be a kind of Freudian situation, where he's unable to say no to anything she says. Including odd sexual gestures towards other wrestlers.

Dave: Until this moment I've never thought "I want to read that person's autobiography." But Vince? I would read that thing cover-to-cover on the day of release. NOBODY has a better combination of interesting life story and mad personality.

Dave: The sexual gestures thing is pure McMahon.

Dan: I know, right? Vince needs to write that. Hold nothing back.

Dave: Like the time he suggested that they do a storyline where he'd gotten Stephanie pregnant. She shot it down... like a ruddy coward!

Dave: Oh, Vince wouldn't hold anything back. If there was a way to write "that" walk he'd do it.

Dave: I want to read stories about him winning shoot fights with jobbers and then telling them "That's why you're at the bottom of the card!"

Dan: If you're going to do Katie Vick, why not that?! I wonder what the explanation for the pregnancy would be. How would they explain it? His grapefruits are SO powerful that they have, through some strange osmosis, impregnated even his own family?

Dave: I always assumed that if they did it that's EXACTLY how they'd end up explaining it. Vince being too sexually potent for his own good is textbook WWE.

Dave: I miss that era of wrestling. The era when Vince was having a mid-life crisis on international television. It made a lovely contrast to the Attitude Era without being TOO different.

Dan: Or they'd drag it out for months, and it would turn out in the end that it was just Hornswoggle's fault. Triple H would come out and deliver the most po-faced, rambling twenty-five minute promo explaining the whole thing.

Dan: 2005-2006 was just pure Vincey-time!

Dave: But it would still be the highlight of that week's television.

Dan: If he wasn't being blown up, he was dropping N-bombs!

Dave: It would end with Vince shaking his first and shouting "Hornswoggleeeeeeeeeeeeee!" like a character from a 70s sitcom.

Dan: Cena appears, shouts “JACK!” then leaves.

Dave: I'd forgotten the exploding limo story that got dropped without explanation (thanks, Benoit!). That's exactly the sort of thing I'd want Vince to write about. He wouldn't care about stuff that's gone wrong. He's that kind of cat.

Dan: End of episode. Cole giggles uncontrollably.

Dave: They could do a YouTube show where Cole is shown clips of fat people falling over, causing him to giggle uncontrollably.

Dan: Benoit. Always ruining perfectly implausible storylines!

Dave: That's why he never got to book.

Dan: "Stop talking about Krispen Wah!"

Dave: He looks like a trout having a stroke.

Dan: Look at Vince's peach suit!

Dave: Only one other man could pull that off: Mark Henry. And he wouldn't do as good a job.

Dan: Vince needs a match at WM 30. I vote for Vince vs Pancake Patterson.

Dan: 'Darren Young on a pole' match. There's a joke in there somewhere.

Dan: Last question: Royal Rumble winner?

Dave: The joke wouldn't be the one you expect. It would be Darren Young balanced precariously atop a Polish person.

Dave: Rumble winner I'm currently leaning toward Punk or Bryan. I don't want to say definitely on Bryan too soon in case his Wyatt Family stint is longer than I expect.

Dan: I'd like somebody out of left-field. Maybe Eva Marie. She seems to be deeply entrenched in the world of wrestling. Didn't she train in the Hart Dungeon?

Dave: Yes. She also did six months in a Japanese dojo and two years under a mask in Mexico.

Dave: She has also worked extensively for SHIMMER.

Dan: Don't forget those two years in ROH.

Dave: First woman to challenge for the ROH championship. She gave Joe a run for his money. The chops she dished out were some of the stiffest I've ever seen.

Dave: And I've seen some stiff chops...

Dave: She'd be a nice challenger for The Streak.

Dan: I say bring Flair out of retirement for a feud.

Dan: This wrestling conversation is 122 comments long.

Dave: Flair versus anyone would be gold. As long as he can chop, apply the figure four and do a Flair flop he's set.

Dave: This is some solid wrestling chat is what it is.

Dan: Where's Mike Takada King when you need him?

Dave: He's staying silent. And stealthy. Like a Japanese ninja.

Dan: He'll come in with a diamond soon. A diamond or a Booker quote.

Dan: AWWWWW......

Dave: Or a Diamond Cutter.

Dan: I haven't watched RAW. Is it worthwhile? I imagine Cena acts heroically dismal.

Dave: This might tease him out.

 

Dave: Cena acts like a medieval dragon slayer.

Dan: QWACKETY QWACK!!

Dave: If that was the NXT commentary team ratings would go through the roof.

Dan: Nash v Booker is the ULTIMATE commentary team.

Dan: Especially white-haired Nash.

Dave: Please note that Booker is not wearing a shirt.

Dan: A leopard-print jacket, but no shirt.

Dave: White-haired Nash is the best kind of Nash.

Dave: Booker no-sells shirts whenever he can.

Dave: Shirts held him down in WCW.

Dan: I just dropped a Ric Flair joke into a conversation about a university black tie event. I said I'd only go if I could dress like this:

 

Dave: Those robes allegedly cost thousands of dollars. You'd have spent more than anyone wearing a tux. You'd need to be prepared to throw it on the floor and elbow drop it. Maybe punch yourself in the forehead until you bleed...

Dan: I'm going to have to go method and knock some people out with my loafers.

Dave: Would you be prepared to do a Flair flop?

Dave: I dread to think what Flair would be like at a university event with alcohol and twenty-something females available to him.

Dan: I'm very prepared.

Dan: It would be his ultimate fuel. More so than an empty ring and the sight of his own blood.

Dan: Ric Flair v Dawn French. WM pre-show.

Dave: If Dawn wins she gets plane tickets back to England. If she loses she has to ride Space Mountain.

Dave: Woooooooooooooooooo!

Dan: My favourite thing is when Flair starts hyperventilating and can only pronounce one word at a time.

Dave: That's serious Flair. You don't wanna mess with serious Flair.

Dan: This video.

Dan: The first ten seconds illustrates this perfectly.

Dan: This is a work of art.

Dave: The bit with the ropes at 1.10...!

Dan: This is what I'm going to do at my university dinner.

Dan: WOOOOOOOOO!

Dave: This is the most perfect Flair video I've ever seen, and I've seen a lot. The best bit is that it's taken from ONE promo!

Dan: I imagine this is how it feels to be inside his mind.

Dave: Modern wrestlers need to learn how to cut an unscripted promo like this.

Dan: Where are his clothes?

Dave: I reckon his clothes were in the crowd before the three minute mark.

Dan: Modern wrestlers need to learn how to cut a SCRIPTED promo.

Dave: I want real personalities on TV. Ric Flair's not playing a character! That was an absolute shoot every Monday night. Woooooooooooooo!

Dave: I'm now watching him cut a promo on Goldberg.

Dave: "The line? The line?! The line! I am the line!" *Flair drops to the floor and rolls from side to side* "I'm the line!"

Dave: Ric Flair is magnificent.

Dan: His hair is magnificent.

Dave: Early 90s Flair had the best hair of all the Flairs.

Dave: I should point out that I like to imagine something akin to the Captain Britain Corps for Flair. All the Flairs of all the eras existing at once, all in different alternate universes.

Dan: "HE JUST RIFLED A GUCCI SHOE!"

Dave: I want to know the context of that and at the same time I don't. It's a magical quote.

Dave: This... this was some solid nonsense.

Dan: I think we should keep it rolling.

Michael: How did this get to 180?

Dave: How did it not get more?

***

¹ Mohnil is an acquaintance of Dan, myself and Michael. He’s a husky gentleman, hence the reference to him guzzling down an entire turkey. We’ve asked him to come onto the podcast several times before but he always says he’s busy. I know this isn’t true, I just can’t prove it.

TLC 2013 preview

One thing we know about Sunday's Tables, Ladders and Chairs pay-per-view is that it won't be the regular forgettable second tier event. The unification of the WWE and World Heavyweight championships in the main event will see to that. With a match of genuine historic significance happening there doesn't need to be a particularly noteworthy undercard. Which is good, because there isn't one.

This is assuming the unification happens. WWE avoided the U word when the champ versus champ match was first announced but they've since embraced it. But this means nothing. It's not beyond WWE to say they're combining the belts knowing full well they've got different plans. It's entirely possible this is part of a longer plot that will culminate at the Rumble or perhaps even WrestleMania itself. I don't think this will come to pass. Everything that's been on TV over the last few weeks indicates WWE have gotten into the one world champ idea.

Before I discuss Orton v Cena I'll look at the undercard. As I've already hinted, it looks unimpressive. It's built around two three-on-one handicap matches. Repeating that sort of match on a show people are expected to pay to watch is asking for trouble. Not only are they inherently boring but they're fairly common on TV. Why pay for something that you get for free?

The handicap matches involve CM Punk, Daniel Bryan, The Shield and The Wyatt Family. Specifically Punk will wrestle Ambrose, Rollins and Reigns and Bryan will face Bray and his boys. The union between the two faces didn't really last long, did it? I was hoping for some sort of gimmick outing for the two in a rematch with Harper and Rowan instead if these bouts. The reason that's not happening and the three-on-one outings are is because Punk and Bryan defied The Authority (in some utterly minor way) on an episode of RAW. This is the McMahons' way of teaching them a lesson.

I imagine both matches will be laid out in similar ways. The faces will start with some offence before getting beaten down while managing to stay in the fight by kicking out of increasingly impressive moves. I think one will win and one will lose. Punk seems the better placed to win. 'The Hounds of Justice' have been showing signs of breaking up over the last month or two. A loss would further that thread. I don't expect them all to go their separate ways, but I think TLC will feature a step towards the group's dissolution.

Bryan seems the better option for a loss. The Wyatt Family did the job at Survivor Series last month so it's, if you like, their turn to win here. Not only that but there's Bray's promise that he'll turn Bryan into a monster to consider. Losing would set Bryan up to be taken away by the family, triggering this supposed monstrous transformation. The only wrinkle with that thought is that 'The Eater of Worlds' already abducted Bryan once and let him go without doing anything to him.

Note that Brie Bella is not booked to appear on this show. That could indicate she's going to be used as part of Bryan versus the Wyatts. She and Bryan are kept separate for the most part but WWE have been willing enough to tinker with them as an on-screen union before.

Speaking of Divas, AJ Lee will defend her championship against Natalya. If they get the time they deserve that could be one of the better Divas matches of the year. A title change seems unlikely. I think we've a better chance of seeing Faaaaaan... daaaaaan... goooooo and-or Summer Rae and-or Tyson Kidd intervening to further the Total Divas plot that Fandango is in love with Natty than AJ losing her gold (or pink... but that sounds wrong).

Speaking of Fandango, he'll face Dolph Ziggler on the TLC pre-show stream. I'll be surprised if he wins. 'The Show Off' may have been dropped down the card for no reason but WWE still seem to recognise his popularity.

Back on the main card, Damien Sandow versus Big E Langston is a match I have what is probably too much hope for. Nothing indicates they're going to do anything that's better than average but I like the idea of them facing one another. Character-wise 'The Intellectual Saviour' is the perfect foe for a guy like Big E. If this match stays relatively short I think it will have more impact. Langston is not yet good enough to keep a crowd interested for long. Ideally Sandow would trick the champ into getting disqualified, setting up a rematch and reminding us that he's billed as an intellectual for a reason, but I'm not expecting to see that. We live in an imperfect world, after all.

Cody Rhodes and Goldust will defend their tag team titles against The Real Americans, Big Show and Rey Mysterio and Ryback and Curtis Axel. Going off the last few pay-per-views I think this is the one to earmark as the early contender for match of the night honours. Dusty’s lads do amazing work alongside one another.

The former Paul Heyman guys beat the Rhodes bros in a non-title match on the December 6^th SmackDown. That doesn’t mean they’ll leave with the titles here. In fact I can’t see any of the teams in this match dethroning Cody and Goldy. ‘The Big Guy’ and Axel have just been shoved together to keep them occupied, Show and Mysterio (MysteriShow?) have been paired for novelty value (a large man and a small man, what larks!) and The Real Americans are presented as non-threats most of the time.

There’s still enough room for another match or two on the show. With Alberto Del Rio not announced to wrestle I think it’s likely he’ll appear. A third match in his current series with Sin Cara would seem likely. So what if we've seen the masked man cleanly defeat 'The Essence of Excellence' two Mondays in a row? These days that passes for a gripping storyline. Sin Cara beating ADR again would further convince people he's becoming a major star. I think that's a priority for WWE because I suspect they want to do Sin Cara v Rey Mysterio at WrestleMania.

The other filler match I wouldn't be surprised to see would be Kofi Kingston v The Miz. As with Del Rio and Sin Cara they've wrestled one another almost exclusively since Survivor Series. Another match we've already seen for free being added to TLC wouldn't make it a worthwhile buy but that won't stop WWE. They're clearly expecting Orton v Cena to be the only reason people watch this show.

Which just leaves the main event. WWE champion Randy Orton versus John Cena for all the gold. It may be a tired rivalry between arguably the two most overexposed men on the roster but it has two good points. The first is that while Orton and Cena have faced each other several times before they've never done so in a TLC match. They have the opportunity to do something new. They may not take it but the chance is there.

The other thing they have going for them is that their storyline has involved a load of other guys. CM Punk, Daniel Bryan, Triple H, The Shield, Kane and Shawn Michaels have all been around the edges or a direct part of the main event over the last several months. All but Michaels could interfere directly in the match because of their feelings on one or both competitors, while it would take no more than a Daniel Bryan run-in to bring out HBK. WWE has loads of options with this match, so much so that I'll be disappointed if it's not booked like one of Raven's ECW title defences or, if you prefer, an Attitude Era classic.

There are reasons for both to win. 'The Apex Predator' could do it to continue rebuilding him as a big name and to stop the WWE championship reverting being a distinguished prop, a status it held until around 2011 or so. Building up is something Cena doesn't need of course, but it's standard practice for WWE to heap accolades on him when they can. And there are few accolades greater than unifying championships, especially when you consider how rarely that happens. I could see Cena winning for no other reason than for WWE to be able to say he's won.

In order to pick a winner for this match you have to think about what WWE's got planned for WrestleMania XXX. Right now I think it's more likely that Cena will be facing Hulk Hogan or challenging Undertaker's Streak than doing anything with the WWE championship. He doesn't need the title for his 'Mania match to be important. Orton's last several years at the show have told us that he does. While I think the most interesting and meaningful WWE title match 'Mania could host is Cena defending against Bryan again I somehow think we're going to get Orton defending against Punk instead. Which means I'm surprising myself and picking Randy Orton to unify the titles.

Predictions summary:

Randy Orton to defeat John Cena
CM Punk to defeat The Shield
The Wyatt Family to defeat Daniel Bryan
Cody Rhodes and Goldust to retain the tag team championship
Big E Langston to defeat Damien Sandow
AJ Lee to defeat Natalya
Dolph Ziggler to defeat Fandango

That RAW Recap 09.12.13

A tweet on Monday afternoon revealed that the Slammy Award episode of Monday Night RAW is one of Vince McMahon’s favourite nights of the year. With that in mind we could have reasonably expected Monday’s RAW to be a belter. It was not. Excellent closing segment aside the show was firmly in average territory.

 

Bret Hart gives this line-up of former champions 4/10

The closing segment was WWE’s final push (Main Event and SmackDown don’t count) at convincing people that the title unification match happening at TLC really means something. It saw Triple H and Stephanie McMahon-Helmsley joined in the ring by numerous former WWE and World Heavyweight champions. This led to a situation where genuine greats such as Shawn Michaels, Mick Foley and Booker T were, on some level, presented as the equals of The Great Khali and Jack Swagger.

 

‘The Game’ kicked things off by talking up the importance of world championships in wrestling, to ever increasing chants of “Daniel Bryan!” from the Washington (Bryan’s home state) crowd. Triple H waited it out, allowing the crowd to have their fun. Mark Henry raised Bryan’s hand, hoping that that would provide a culmination point for the fans. But it didn’t, they just carried on.  Home state crowd or not, this was a perfect illustration of how popular Bryan remains with the people who buy tickets to WWE events, an excellent reason for his push to continue.

 

Eventually Tripper resumed his speech and brought Randy Orton and John Cena to the ring. The idea was that both men would, to use wrestling parlance, talk people into the building. Each would cut a promo about the importance of the match, the concept of title unification and their dislike for each other so that punters would be convinced they’d be missing out on something if they fail to order this pay-per-view. If that’s what WWE were going for, and the approach taken as well as Triple H’s proclivity for old school antics makes me think it was, then they failed. I don’t think a significant number of people will have been convinced to order TLC based on the performances on RAW alone. But I do think both Orton and Cena did a great job.

 

Orton started things off with what was, by his standards, a great piece of mic work. Gone was the stilted, drawn out delivery of hollow nonsense, replaced by passion and a man who wanted to show that being a world champion means something to him. Perhaps more significantly this was a man ho wanted to show that he’s the equal of John Felix Anthony Cena.

 

Orton commented that Cena had lost the “ruthless aggression” (remember that “era”?) he’d claimed to have when he first debuted in WWE. Then he put himself over as the greatest superstar of this or any other generation and mentioned some of the other men in the ring. He reminded us that he’d taken years off of Mick Foley’s career and life and that he’d embarrassed Shawn Michaels numerous times, before saying that had he been around for Survivor Series ’97 the Montreal Screwjob wouldn’t have needed to happen. Naturally Bret Hart did not look happy at that.

 

Unfortunately Orty let himself down at the last minute. He said that everything Cena’s worked so hard for will come crashing down around him on Sunday. It was a shame that such a passionate speech was closed by such a generic comment.

 

Cena began his response by bringing Daniel Bryan into the centre of the ring to illustrate that people like him because he works hard. In truth he didn’t actually need to involve Bryan at this point. He did so partly to get the audience on side and partly to give them another chance to cheer for Bryan, something they all clearly wanted to do. There was nothing wrong with either reason. It demonstrates how good Cena is at reading situations and crowds.

 

Cena went on to talk about how Orton has had everything handed to him during his WWE career because his father was a wrestler. In fairness to Orton this is rubbish. WWE has hired people based on family names in the past, and probably will in the future, but nobody would get to Orton’s level based purely on their name. Orton, Rock, and Eddie Guerrero, all second or third generation stars, reached the top of WWE because on their hard work. By Cena’s logic Ted DiBiase, Chavo Guerrero (Junior) and Natalya are all major stars.

 

If Cena really has an issue with third generation people in the wrestling business he should have been looking at the only woman in the ring with him. She is the greatest beneficiary of nepotism in WWE history.

 

Cena talked about Orton being bulletproof during their time together in developmental because management liked him. That was a state of affairs that continued when the two moved to the main roster and Orton was sheltered by “the best performer in the business” (Triple H, apparently). Cena’s point was that all Randy does is hide behind the McMahons.

 

The mention of Triple H being the best performer in the business is interesting. It’s yet another tantalising hint that Cena and The Authority are closer than they appear to be. It wouldn’t be the last of the show.

 

Cena reminded us that Orton feels he’s better than WWE in its entirety and that he’s had in-ring behavioural problems in the past. Smashing kayfabe, he also brought up Orton’s behavioural problems outside the ring. Engaging hyperbole mode the World Heavyweight champion said Sunday’s TLC match will be the biggest in company history and that it will change the direction of the organisation.

 

Still not done Cena said he’s always been a fighting champion and gave himself credit for giving Dolph Ziggler, CM Punk and Daniel Bryan chances to main event pay-per-views and wrestle for top titles. Judging by his reaction this infuriated Punk. Understandably so because it’s only part true: Cena did main event pay-per-views against all three men (and others) but the men themselves had earned those opportunities with years of work. They didn’t need Cena’s blessing to succeed, which was how it seemed to presented on RAW.

 

Title unification in WWE was always going to involve these two

Cena ended his promo by saying that the TLC match will be physical and he wants to know that ‘The Apex Predator’ will be at his very best. The last thing that anybody wants, he said, his another Randy Orton excuse. The two shook hands as the belts were raised up to the ceiling. Then Orton cheap shotted Cena and everything kicked off.

 

Cena took Orty down and pummelled him. The more physically able world champions in the ring swarmed around the two and pulled them apart. As the two men were held in separate corners Punk approached Orton , presumably to try talking some sense into him, and got a slap for his trouble. His response was to punch Orton repeatedly.

 

‘The Game’ intervened, easily flooring Punk and then yelling at Orton. He was pulled around to take a retaliatory right from Punk. HBK super kicked Punk. Bryan hit a running knee on HBK. Orton attempted an RKO on Bryan but got shoved off into Stephanie McMahon. Triple H checked on Steph and then dropped a distraught Orton with a Pedigree.

 

Cena and Kane then helped Triple H get Stephanie to her feet as the fans basically ignored the events they’d just witnessed and chanted for Bryan again. The show went off the air with Triple H, Stephanie, Kane and Cena looking down at Orton.

 

I don’t think Cena’s going to align himself with The Authority at TLC but I do think there’s an argument to be made for it being the long-term plan. And if it is it’s a good one. It could give the Cena character the refresh it needs without being an all-out heel turn. Cena could still be marketed at kids but adult (more specifically hardcore) fans would have more reason than ever to dislike him because he’d be aligned with the promotion’s lead heel group.  

 

As pre-pay-per-view RAWs go this show as a whole was not great. But its main event segment was an absolute classic. It’s set up multiple possibilities for future storylines. In addition to Cena potentially joining The Authority the issues between Bryan and Michaels were revisited and CM Punk was drawn further into conflict with The Authority. It looks like WWE are setting up a very strong WrestleMania Season.